Gay Marriage?

I do not support Gay marriages. hopefully I won’t get any negative fall back on my stance. It currently seems popular to be a supporter of Gay rights and gay marriage without so much as thinking about the issue for themselves. gay people are guilty of this as well. Some say, “I want gay marriage to be legal!” if you ask them why, you’ll get a blank stare. So I’ll repeat myself, I do not support gay marriage. It’s not that I’m against gay people or gay rights. It’s your life, do what you want with it.

Religious issue out of the way first. I am a non-denomination christian. You might hear the argument that gay marriage is an abomination in gods eye’s or he looks down upon gay marriages. but we can throw out these augments right away because your particular belief cannot be forced on other people. not in this country. All those statements really comes down to is: ‘I’m not gay, but If i was, then my god would hate me.’ lucky for you, your not gay. right? No my reason’s are not based on religion at all.

My reasoning has nothing to do with depriving gay people of anything. It’s party based on historical tradition, current law, and definition. But mostly it’s the current state of marriage.

Historically, marriage is an institution between a man and a women. Currently, marriage law in America supports that historic custom. the meaning: “A traditional marriage is a committed relationship or monogamous union between a man (husband) and a woman (wife), recognized by civil authority and/or bound by the religious beliefs of the participants. A dual nature, a binding legal contract plus a moral promise, makes marriages” -wikipedia (edited)

It’s the Moral promise that separates a ‘dating couple’ and a ‘married couple’. It’s the promise that matters most.

So why not a gay couple who make that moral promise? Well, marriage has been taken for granted for a long time. the last hundred years or so the essence of what it is to be married has been stretched thin. when a man and a women get married now days, that moral promise they make before a higher power hardly means anything anymore. We marry others we hardly know, We cheat on our spouses, We divorce on a whim. It’s to quick and to easy to get married. With the exception of it being recognised by the state, the only thing a marriage has left is the fact that it is to be between a man and a women. It’s so screwed up, I guess that’s why most people don’t really care if it is opened up to gay couples.

Yet there people like me that still hold on to the belief that Gay’s should not be married. It isn’t about you, It’s about me. I am married. with the current state of marriage in the U.S. being what it is, we are at the breaking point already. I feel that if Gay’s can legally become married and we break one of the two key components of what a marriage should be, then there truly is no hope for the term and the meaning of a marriage.

I think that it would be wrong to change something so fundamental as the definition of the union until the unions can be stronger. Marriage is to fragile already. If only we could fix the current problems with marriage in today’s society, then I wouldn’t be against the possibility of calling a gay couple, ‘a married couple’.

Governmental and religious reform is needed. If It were up to me, People convicted of violent crimes could not be married. People who batter could not be married. People whom have known each other a short time could not be married. married couples with problems should be provided counseling. married couples could not easily be divorced. divorced people would only be allowed to remarry once, with the exception of their spouse passing away. these we’re just off the top of my head but are perfectly reasonable criteria that could fix 90% of what is wrong with marriage today.

But Why do gay couples want to be married with all the evident problems the current system of marriage has? You’ve had support. You have the rights and freedoms the rest of us do. We’ve given what you rightfully deserve as human beings. granted it will still be a long time, if ever, before your not persecuted but you have crossed the line with the marriage issue. You wonder why some people support you up until you ask to be married. Before you wanted equal treatment, now your trying to change something that has stood for an untold amount of time. yet you push harder than ever. Why?

I can only come up with two logical reasons. First, because your still fighting for acceptance. I can understand that. the second reason would be because of the other side of marriage I haven’t talked about yet. Marriage is a duality. It’s other half is that it is recognized by a civil authority.

Government Recognizes married couples and extends to them certain privileges. Tax breaks, inheritance, etc. Naturally gay couples want these same benefits. Is that what it is all about?

I’ve done my best to explain what is wrong with marriage now and why it should remain between a man and a women. hopefully gay people can sympathize with my cause of marriage reform instead of trying to destroy it’s basic foundation.

Perhaps, if you created a union all your own. something that had the same benefits as being married but does not have that title. would the issue would be resolved? can you allow us just the word? Call it a ‘Gay Union’ or whatever you want. make your Moral Promise to each other or to your god, Love one another, be good people. raise a family, have the benefits. show us that you can do it better than we can, maybe we’ll learn a thing or two and fix what us straight people call ‘marriage’

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Comments

  1. Musicguy  June 11, 2006

    Sorry, as a gay man, I can’t sympathize with your position in any way. You are forgetting that marriage as an institution has changed over time: Women were once property and people of different races could not marry. There is a natural evolution to all things, even an institution as old as marriage.

    In one breath you can’t say that you are fine with gay people and gay rights, but in the very next say that marriage is out of the question. I have to suffer through politicians saying crap like that all the time. Either you are supportive or not. Step up and take a stand, one way or the other.

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  2. -t-  June 11, 2006

    Marriage is about two things.
    First to share a formal bond, a promise based on love.
    Second the rights and obligations that come along with it. One is to care for each other which naturally includes financial support. And of course the legal recognition of the relationship infront of the law etc.
    The religious aspect is eventually included int he first point.
    In my opinion gays have a moral right to marry, to be respected just like heterosexual couples. You talk about support. Tell me how you supported gays? The truth is they’re still lacking support in too many issues. They’re still being discriminated against – actively and passively! And right here you are claiming you supported them and expect them to respect your opinion which, in my opinion, completely lacks justification.
    What would gay marriage change about marriage in general? Let me ask you this question: Why did YOU marry? If you answer anything other than “love”, you’re doomed. And if you answer “love” then I ask you why gays should not be granted the same right you have unless you don’t respect gay relationships, which would make you very ignorant/intolerant.
    In fact there is a difference made between gay and hetero marriage in Europe. They have the same rights, but the ceremony and the definition is different. I think this is the solution you’re looking for. Not a ban for gay marriage.
    Besides, the issue with marriage and high divorce rates lies somewhere else. It’s a problem of our society and has nothing to do with gay relationships. You’re digging in the wrong spot. Ask yourself how kids are brought up in this society, the values they learn and the conclusions they draw. It’s all about fame and fortune, money and power. What about respecting each other, help and love. All those religous values (in every religion). Actually I’m not religious at all, but I badly miss these values in today’s society and the missuse of religion (christinas vs. moslems for example). Bu that’s a completely different story.

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  3. Kris  June 11, 2006

    music guy and t. again, I still feel that the meaning of marriage is at a breaking point and stated that It might not bother me if marriage were in a better condition today. I think that gay ‘marriage’ would push it past a point where it could be fixed. you talked about how races could not many other races. that may have been so, but the definition never said marriage was a union between a man and a women of the same race. nor did it say anything about the status of women as property. you asked how i support gay rights. well I’ll admit i do it passively. since I don’t have many gay acquaintances I see no reason to wave a pro-gay banner, but I am supportive non the less. you want me to vote on an issue in your favor sure. want me to tell people not to be homophobic bastards, no problem. however, i would like to hear your comments on marriage reform and most important, the ideas of having what would essentially be marriage but with just a different name. that is something I am honestly looking for a take on.

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  4. Musicguy  June 11, 2006

    Ok- Let’s write laws that outlaw divorce and adultery. That’s sure to fix everything.

    There’s no need to marriage reform. Jewish people have been getting divorced since the time of Christ. If you believe the bible, he even comments on that issue. It’s not going to go away. You can’t force people to have a “waiting period” before they get married.

    You can’t legislate love. That idea is ridiculous. People are always going to get divorced. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t matter. The world will keep on turning as people get married over and over again. If this is the greatest problem America has to face, I’d say we’re in VERY good shape.

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  5. Kris  June 11, 2006

    “If this is the greatest problem America has to face, I’d say we’re in VERY good shape.” Agreed. Thanks for the good debate.

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  6. chrissy  June 11, 2006

    Kris, I agree that marriage is so fragile here in America. Marriage is a secrete thing, that in this day and age is taken so lightly. Marriage is hard work, and it requires 100% from each other, not 50 50.

    The one thing I will have to disagree with you on is the comment made about” People whom have known each other a short time could not be married.” its not about how long you have known the person its about pure commitment to your spouse, working through every aspect of your marriage, and the tough one for me, ‘communication’. Jeff and I have friends from INDIA who had an arranged marriage. You look at them and know that they are in it for the long run. They are making it work and so do many other couples. Jeff and I are another example. We knew each other for 3 months and it was all long distance. We are committed to each other and in it for the long run. I will not say that we will not make mistake because that would be a lie, we are human. Just remember you may think you know someone when you marry them and you think you know them well, but after the first few years things start to change. LOL! The ooh feeling starts to diminished and it starts to be work. Not saying you will never have that ooh feeling ever again for your spouse, but Im saying it is no longer an everyday feeling. Here in America we are all about feelings, and we tend to be self centered when it comes to our feelings.
    Love is not a feeling its a gift. Its a gift to be used wisely and never taken for granite.

    As for gay marriage, I do not think it should be an option. My reason has to do with a couple reasons. One being I am a follower of Jesus christ, and in his book on life (BIBLE) he says a man should leave his mother and cling to his wife. Another reason, say the government does okay gay marriage what’s not to say in a few years following that change they will make a change for polygamist, bestiality and petophila. Not saying I put gays in and amongst these other groups, Im just saying it will open the doors to other things. I am all for civil unions! A gay couple can love and cherish each other just as a heterosexual couple can. There’s no question about that.

    I hope you get what Im saying, because I’m not one for writing. You are a great writer with words. Jeff and I really enjoyed your response to this issue. Marriage should never be taken lightly. Great debate!

    Talk with you later,
    Chrissy

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  7. Kris  June 11, 2006

    Chrissy thanks for the reply. you presented some good points I hadn’t thought about, such as aranged marriages and an exact lenth of time a couple should wait. since jeff and you are a perfect example of how a short term relationship could turn into a great marriage and since this is all hypothectical anyhow, I would still have a “recommended” waiting period. how’s that sound? haha.

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  8. Musicguy  June 11, 2006

    Chrissy- Jesus said nothing in the bible about gay marriage. Nothing at all. You’re attempting to use the standards of society from 2000 years ago and plant them here today. The bible says lots of things that NO ONE follows anymore. Let’s take clothing made from two different materials- yeah that’s illegal. And my trimmed sideburns- that’s punishable by DEATH. If you want to follow the bible, don’t pick and choose which verses sound good to you. Sell your daughter into slavery (bible says it’s OK) and follow everything.

    As for your other arguments (polygamy, etc.) These were also used when America debated letting people of different races marry. We can vividly see that history does indeed repeat itself. How about a nice gay holocaust- we’d not have to argue about this point ever again.

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  9. Kris  June 11, 2006

    Bible Issues: Well all the points you made are allready illigal. so if they followed it they would be criminals even if it is what they believed. but the great thing about any religion is that you CAN pick out the parts you want to live by. that’s the great thing about it. she never said she was a hard lined christian fundimentalists that takes the bible literally and word for word. and about this comment: “gay holocaust- we’d not have to argue about this point ever again.” Well that’s just silly. If your trying to say nobody else will ever be born gay then heck go ahead and get married. there would be no gay/straight issues naturally in one generation. I’d make that concession if your an endangered species.

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  10. Kelly  June 12, 2006

    I think it would be helpful if you would split up the debate into two parts.

    1. Is the allowance of gay marriage mandated by the Constitution?
    2. Is the allowance of gay marriage a good idea?

    As to 1, I would argue that it’s not. It’s interesting that in the last 30 or so years “homosexual” has become a trait that pervades every part of a person’s life if they identify that way, while before that it was seen as what it is: a behavioral preference. Just by saying “I’m gay” instead of saying “I’m sexually attracted to persons of the same sex” does wonders to how people think about the issue, and puts it into a box that looks like an Equal Protection issue under the 14th Amendment when really that’s not what it is at all. Lawrence v. Texas is bullshit–just read Scalia’s dissent.

    And when it comes down to it, there’s no rational distinction between gay and polygamous for purposes of Constitutional interpretation. So is this the result we want?

    As to 2, I think that’s a much more difficult question. The States should be free to regulate morality. If not, then you have problems with prostitution, gambling, and other issues. And if the majority wants it to be exclusively male-female then what’s the problem? The government is simply making a statement as to preferred morality, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

    A tangential issue of course is discrimination in other contexts. Personally, I think employment decisions should be limited to things that are rationally related to employment, e.g. that who you have sex with or whether you smoke tobacco off-work has nothing to do with whether you get hired or get a raise. Obviously you shouldn’t lose the right to vote because of what you do in your free time, and all people should be given the protection of the criminal law regardless of what they think, feel, and do (even murderers can’t be murdered with impunity).

    I’m not sure if I’ve really contributed to this debate, but I hope I did. I’m always worried about heading off name-calling attacks (bigot) by people who fail to see the merit of my arguments because they simply don’t agree.

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  11. Joanna  June 12, 2006

    I am with you. I do not support gay marriage.

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  12. christine  June 24, 2006

    i think marriage should be banned for everyone. it’s a travesty.

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  13. Akira  August 9, 2006

    It doesn’t seem very fair to the gay community to tell them to hang on until straight marriage gets its’ act together. Why? Marriage has been following a trend for the last twenty or so years where divorce isn’t done because your husband/wife is cheating on you or something of equal malice, but rather it’s done because Fluffers the kitty cat couldn’t sleep on the bed. In fact, actors are trying to hit the headlines with shorter and shorter marriages.

    Saying that Gays shouldn’t be able to get married for any reason is like saying Blacks shouldn’t marry Whites, because marriage just isn’t ready for that, right? Besides, if I can quote Family Guy “So, wait, you’re telling me that two people who hate each other can get married while two people in love can’t?” I’ve seen plenty of married couples who hate each other’s guts.

    Plus, other countries have already made gay marriage legal. It’s not fair to move from one of those countries to this one and be told that your marriage is illegal and null here. I haven’t seen those countries collapse in on themselves or lose all of the ‘sanctity of marriage’. Pfft, sanctity of marriage died over a decade ago, and I doubt that it’ll return.

    Oh yeah, and saying that no one gives you a reason for gay marriage being legal is utter bull. If you bother to actually speak to people with really strong ideas then you will get a response, trust me.

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